Posts by Max Divergent

49

No Evidence Against Iraq, You Say?

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/interviews/khodada.html.

http://www.observer.co.uk/focus/story/0,6903,591439,00.html.

http://www.caabu.org/campaigns/iraqi-exiles-letter.html.

Max Divergent

Softcocks

'My enemy's enemy is my friend', and Saddam, OBL and others have declared Jihad.

Saddam’s a bad Muslim and OBL would no doubt avoid him like a JW avoids an apostate, but can responsible leaders with the power to act really be asked to sit on their hands and rely on these sorts of maddies with this military capability staying apart?

Here is a clear and well-defined long-standing target that is relatively easily overcome in a unified action for a genuine improvement in security. Yet Russia, Germany, China, France and others are blocking action against this dangerous and tyrannical regime (odd group of countries to be doing ‘the right thing’ in restraining the ‘aggressive’ UK and US in the context of the last 100 years).

This group may be genuine or may just be fighting America, but they leave the non-Islamic world softcocked, weak and an easy target.

Max - who declines to celebrate religious freedom expressed by Jihad

75

Interesting UK Daily Mirror Article

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

since some consider the us to be the most dangerous rogue nation currently and others have stated we are little more than corrupt thugs, i find this article from the daily mirror to be quite intersting.. .

tony parsons - uk daily mirror september 11, 2002 no matter what your views on president bush's statement of upcoming war, this is from an english journalist, is very interesting.

no, do more than remember.

Max Divergent

Hi Simon - War is a bad thing, and somthing I wish could be avoided. However not being willing to fight means those who are have a terrible advantage. I'm also glad there are people willing to stand up and object to their governments decisions, that's healthy - and somthing one couldn't do in Iraq.

But yes, I think a track record stands for somthing, but isn't enough to justify or condem current actions. Else Russia, China, France and Germany's conduct in the last century would have to be considered when reviewing their blocking of action against Saddam's Iraq.

"Officer ... I stopped at the last two red lights like I was supposed to ... I should be allowed to go through the third" Is that how it works?

I think it's more like Iraq saying, 'Officer, don't flash your lights at me you bastard! I'll sue you for harrasing me when all I do is run red lights...' and the Policeman being told to tear up the ticket by the Security Council coz Iraq's driving hasn't hurt anyone they know recently...

I'd disagree about them not taking territory though ... vast amounts of the world are now under their economic control (the real weapon of the 21st century).

I'm not sure that economic success can really be equated to military or direct political control... different beasts. If it is economic imperialism, then it's the most free and benevolent empire yet established. I don't think it is that, but if it is then I'll settle for it given the alternatives. But that's me.

Freedom sure aint free.

And thanks for the forum...

Max

75

Interesting UK Daily Mirror Article

by DakotaRed in

jw
friends

since some consider the us to be the most dangerous rogue nation currently and others have stated we are little more than corrupt thugs, i find this article from the daily mirror to be quite intersting.. .

tony parsons - uk daily mirror september 11, 2002 no matter what your views on president bush's statement of upcoming war, this is from an english journalist, is very interesting.

no, do more than remember.

Max Divergent

" Freedom is not free"

My personal epiphany on this came a few weeks ago at JFK’s grave.

I stood there looking down to the memorials for President’s Lincoln and Washington with my back to Robert E Lee’s previous home.

I realised that America really does truly believe itself to be the protector and maintainer of the world’s freedom, and the record’s of Lincoln and Washington and the price extracted from Lee and the slave states demonstrates that America started at home first. Thank God.

One JFK’s quotes inscribed on the wall is ‘Freedom is not free’. No, it’s not.

The price to be paid in the fight for freedom from attacks on any humans from religionists and tyrants who have dedicated themselves to Holy War against the secular liberal democracies is horrendous for all concerned.

But what else are self-respecting free nations to do? Applaud acts of religious freedom expressed by Jihad? Or are they to act against those who take freedom away?

While the action against Iraq may have troubling aspects (how can war not?), I’d just say that in my view the American republic is the single best thing to have happened to this world in the past 500 years.

Regards, Max

Australia

‘America liberated Europe twice in the 20 th Century, but took no more territory that it took to bury their dead’ Condelezza Rice, National Security Adviser to President Bush

11

My eyes were opened!!!!!!.

by yesidid in

jw
friends

that came for me when i was made aware of the deceit of the quotation

although i was brought up a dub i was not aware that until 1929 they were teaching jesus had returned in 1874. so how could they say

in chapter 131 page of the greatest man book:

Max Divergent

I heard Carl Sagan talking about doomsday cults and how they explain why the world is still here after the nominated date. He gave some examples and then said that the most imginative was one group said that the world had in fact ended in 1935 (or 1914 or somthing) but no-one else had noticed!!! I wonder who that was... :-)

30

What is your PSI / ESP potential?

by manon in

jw
friends

experts estimate that one person out of twenty possesses an unusual degree of extrasensory perception-esp or psi energy.

the following questions may determine your own psi potential:

1- is it unusual for you to be reduced to tears?

Max Divergent

Four times this week I've had a strong feeling someone would return a call I'd placed some hours earlier. On three occasions they called within 15 seconds. I scored highly in the quiz. Mmmmm.... Max

34

A Little Game

by JH in

jw
friends

mind game

this is strange...can you figure it out?

are you the 2% or 98% of the population?

Max Divergent

I've got a Ardvark in Bolivia eating a Kiwi Fruit...

Max of the Divergent Class......or family or somthing...

10

District Conventions this year

by ScoobySnax in

jw
friends

"give god glory" is the theme for the 2003 conventions.......so who here is gonna be coming with me?.....form a queue now, i know there must be many here who want to attend.....if anyones going to twickenham in london, i can maybe help out with a lift in my car.

if you are and continue to remain apostate, i will just drop you off outside the convention grounds where you can continue to make that silly spectacle of yourselves with flipcharts etc...... this offer is open to all of course...

Max Divergent

WHAT!!! No jamboree in Melbourne or Adelaide or Brisbane??? Umm... that's three of the four biggest cities in Australia! Some of them will have to travel a hell of a long way... Garwd... Fuck me... if I was in now, I'd have to travel about 1500 miles to Carins or 2000 miles to Perth!!

I'm so glad I'm way out of it...

39

upcoming elder visit, need help

by greven in

jw
friends

i have been inactive for quite a while since i started to do research on the society.

the elders knew about this and even encouraged it, until i started to ask the wrong type of questions, mostly of the kind: "can you provide verifyable evidence for that?".

anyway, they wanted to meet to discuss my current position towards the religion and towards the bible.

Max Divergent

Hi - By the sound of it you've got some verbal juggling to do if you want to avoid DF.

The question they asked me was something like: 'In your opinion, do the Witnesses present the truth, but that truth isn't for you; or, do you believe the Witnesses do not present the truth' (or words to that effect). 'Yes' to either = probable Judicial Committee, 'No' to both = more hassles as you’re not acting in accord with your words by being inactive.

I took an approach that suited me, but may not be right for others... I replied that I'd given that some thought and checked the dictionary definition for heresy and that seemed to describe the first condition they described. I'd also checked the dictionary definition for apostasy, and that seemed to describe the second condition.

I said that I didn't think that either condition described my position, but that I was acutely aware that my current thoughts were probably wrong and that I couldn't and wouldn't presume to trouble others with it. 'At the end of the day, I'm not sure where I'm at in regard those very serious positions you describe, but I remain absolutely dedicated to truth and goodness. I just don't know about those sorts of really big questions at the moment' (and what's wrong with any of that from the JW point of view?).

They left spitting that I was creating smokescreens to hide behind. True, of course. They don’t like people just walking away on their own terms. One of the guys was a buddy and when he called for a (further) follow-up call, I said that they were always welcome for a cup of coffee but I had nothing religious to discuss with anyone. They never came for another official visit.

That worked for me, but may not for others. I just suggest that you consider it from their point of view before they come and before you speak. Give them uncertainty and humility, but avoid any definite positions on anything, especially anything they suggest even if it sounds like it’s an ok thing to agree with – they’ve practiced this and have a clearly thought out strategy to find out apostates.

Easy answers to any question include: “I don’t know’; ‘I’m not sure’; ‘I’m sure I’m wrong’; ‘I’d have to do more research/prayer/meditation on that’; ‘I don’t understand what it’d mean to say Yes or No to that very deep question’; ‘I don’t remember’; ‘Not in my presence’...

Good luck, with clear thought and good preperation it's possible to get through.

Cheers, Max

28

Bad Doors in the field service

by JH in

jw
friends

.

did you ever knock on a door, and realize that the person knew more about the bible than you did?

what was your worst experience in the field service?.

Max Divergent

Hi Jan

All the time. One of the BEST experiences was meeting a professor (suppose he was by the way he spoke and his homes proximity to the uni) who 'just happened to be reading this "little black book of philosophy"' and proceeded to give me a lesson in thinking, the origin of the ideas in the WT&A and the lack of originality of it all. He only took 15 mins to help me open my mind.

Cheers, Max

(The born again fundies were always fun too...)

1

Max in NYC...

by Max Divergent in

jw
friends

hey - well, i've left my desert home in oz and ventured to the us of a and am writing you from harlem, nyc.

having a fantastic time, what a great country (my second time)!!

just had 6 days in dc checking out the museums, capitol etc.. maybe i'm a bit sensitive, but the the jw's seem ever present!

Max Divergent

Hey - Well, I've left my desert home in Oz and ventured to the US of A and am writing you from Harlem, NYC. Having a fantastic time, what a great country (my second time)!! Just had 6 days in DC checking out the museums, Capitol etc.

Maybe I'm a bit sensitive, but the the JW's seem ever present! I walked up to my accomodation near 145th St and St Nicholas, three doors down is a Kingdom Hall!!! (I just might go:-) I went to the Holocaust Museum in DC, when you go in you get an ID Card of a victim... Mine belonged to a JW!!!

Anyway I've gotta go now... I'm going to try to get on an HQ tour too.

Cheers, Max, NYC